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Vengeance vs. Forgiveness

I've been reading recent threads on MacLeod, and the question of whether he judges others. My own question, inspired by a vid idea that is eating my brain, has to do with vengeance.

I'm not concerned with MacLeod killing Immortals for being a threat to Mortals right now. I want to look at his response when another person has harmed him or people he cares about. I welcome any form of response and discussion, up to pelting with gummy bears. But I'm going to start the conversation with a simple list of cases in which it seems to me he responded with vengeance, and times he did not.

Vengeance on:
Kanwulf for the death of Ian MacLeod
Earl of Rosemont for the massacres after Culloden
Kern for the death of Little Deer
Xavier for killing Hamza El Kahir

Forgiveness of:
Kage with personal betrayal and the deaths of the nuns and orphans
the Mortal boy who killed Tessa
possibly Methos ("I want him to live!")

a bit of both for:
Haresh Clay for the killing of Graham Ashe

Ideas? Comments?


Jun. 16th, 2006 02:05 pm (UTC)
Ooh, cool idea.

Right off the bat, I'd question whether challenging Xavier is vengeance. He was a clear and present danger to Tessa -- he tried to kill her. He was using unfair tactics to kill other Immortals, with help, and guns. Yes, I think Duncan hated Xavier, but I never got the sense that he was primarily motivated by hate or anger. Xavier was a rabid dog that had to be put down. Not to mention, he really didn't like Duncan, and would have gladly hurt anyone Duncan cared about if given the chance.

Kern, you might look at the same way, but I think it's very clear Duncan isn't thinking of the people he might hurt -- he's thinking of the people he did hurt. So, yes, vengeance.

Also, re: forgiveness -- Gregor, David Keogh (and what the hell were you thinking, Mac??), and Warren Cochrane.
Jun. 16th, 2006 02:05 pm (UTC)
Although, I suppose not Warren, sorry. He hadn't hurt anyone Mac cared about. But Gregor and David.
Jun. 17th, 2006 04:23 am (UTC)
I'd question whether challenging Xavier is vengeance
There were a whole slew of reasons for MacLeod to kill Xavier. He's a threat to Mortals, doesn't play by the Rules, was siding with Hunters against his own kind, and he scared MacLeod. Mac doesn't scare that easily, and he never seems to respond well to it when someone does frighten him. As if his internal shame at his own cowardice gets turned outward into aggression. I would say that vengeance is somewhere on the menu, but it might not be the entree.

I went back and forth about including Gregor. Gregor had put Richie in danger. But it didn't feel vengeful to me, more like Mac was driven by necessity. And without the motive of vengeance, forgiveness is impossible. If that makes sense.

David Keogh, yep, forgot about that twisted little puppy. Was his fiancee a friend of Duncan's? I can't remember.
Jun. 17th, 2006 04:05 pm (UTC)
Interesting. I never really thought of Duncan being particularly scared of Xavier. But yes, I suppose once he hooked up with Horton, he became pretty scary. I still don't think I'd call it vengeance. Xavier never really successfully hurt Duncan or anyone he cared about that much. I mean, he did kill his acquaintance, the one whose wife had the flower shop. But it seemed to me much more about what he would do, not what he had done.

I said Gregor because I think at that particular moment in time, in the stairwell and on the roof, Duncan was really quite angry about Gregor threatening Linda. But overall, you're right, anger was mixed with necessity.

No, David's fiancee wasn't a friend, but you said "when another person has harmed him," and David did try to kill him. I think Duncan was also angry with him for betraying him and disappointing him. But yeah, you're probably right, I wouldn't exactly call it vengeance. However, I do think there was an element of forgiveness in letting him go. He pitied David. His mistake, IMO. If there's one guy Duncan let go that I think he never should have, it's David Keogh. The guy was nuts. And there's no way he wasn't going to hurt someone else, eventually.
Jun. 17th, 2006 04:07 pm (UTC)
And now, I'm going to retract what I just said. :D I forgot about Duncan's friend in WWI that Xavier killed with the poison gas. He did seem pretty upset about that. So, okay. Maybe just a little revenge. *g*
Jun. 22nd, 2006 08:42 pm (UTC)
If there's one guy Duncan let go that I think he never should have, it's David Keogh. The guy was nuts. And there's no way he wasn't going to hurt someone else, eventually.

Hmm. On that same line, the one woman I think Duncan should never have let go is Annie Devlin, for precisely the same reasons: sooner or later, she's going to hurt someone. ::eyes that:: David Keogh and Annie Devlin... *not* a match made in heaven. Eep!